wowzer. that last part about covenant over congregation and the definition you landed on just open a door in my brain and sunshine, sparkles and curiosity blasted through. will be thinking about this for a while.
also, i loved how you described your superpower and job of a leader.
thanks for putting words to things i feel and care about deeply but can't always articulate.
Well this felt like sitting down for tea with two people i deeply admire. delightful.
a few reflections:
- "the people who I respect the most — and who I see living their lives with such deep integrity, courage, and hope — are the ones who have taken religion the most seriously." this correlation really landed for me. taking the content of the religion out of it, and just noticing that folks who commit themselves to religion seem to experience a lot of the things i long for in life, is eye opening
- related: i had a recent experience at a sesshin of observing the deep sense of reverence, watching one of the teachers chant. i realized that reverence was something deeply lacking in my life
- i'm thinking about how traditional religions, for many, weren't just one of many communities they participated in. it is/was *the* community for them. it took up a massive amount of the social focus in their life. their life oriented around it. and i wonder what we lose when we split our attention, and experience of ritual, into many different communities, spaces, and events
- i just love seeing how your focus and learning has evolved over the past decade casper. <3 and i resonate strongly with your current focus of bridging the traditional and the modern - i find myself playing at the same edge
I love everything about this interview. Just to pick one thing at random—I’m moved to see someone male-identified honoring the teaching and lineage of women-identified leaders. I’ve spent a decade being trained in ceremony through a feminine leadership paradigm and it’s hard to convey to people who have only seen leadership through a patriarchal lens just how different it is. I’m making a lot of jumps here, Casper, but I’m curious if you might feel what I mean.
Also, a question: how do you think about ritual vs. ceremony? I apologize if this is covered in your books. I’m new to your work and just starting to read beyond this interview (excited!!). I’ve thought about a lot of similar things within my circles and I would say a ceremony is more one-off, and ritual is something than gains meaning and belonging by being repeated in (almost) the same way over and over. I’m super interested in creating emergent ceremonies to meet this breakdown/breakthrough moment, for I instance. And inspired by the work of Michael Meade here, among others. Ritual is interesting because, as I think you’re getting at here, meaning and belonging can be added to things (like spin class) by doing it repeatedly with a specific intention with others. I 100% agree with the idea that rituals are way more efficient than conversation at building belonging. What about ceremony? I’m guessing yes but would love to hear any nuance you want to add to that.
wowzer. that last part about covenant over congregation and the definition you landed on just open a door in my brain and sunshine, sparkles and curiosity blasted through. will be thinking about this for a while.
also, i loved how you described your superpower and job of a leader.
thanks for putting words to things i feel and care about deeply but can't always articulate.
I’m so glad that resonated for you, Brenna! Thanks for this sweet note :)
Well this felt like sitting down for tea with two people i deeply admire. delightful.
a few reflections:
- "the people who I respect the most — and who I see living their lives with such deep integrity, courage, and hope — are the ones who have taken religion the most seriously." this correlation really landed for me. taking the content of the religion out of it, and just noticing that folks who commit themselves to religion seem to experience a lot of the things i long for in life, is eye opening
- related: i had a recent experience at a sesshin of observing the deep sense of reverence, watching one of the teachers chant. i realized that reverence was something deeply lacking in my life
- i'm thinking about how traditional religions, for many, weren't just one of many communities they participated in. it is/was *the* community for them. it took up a massive amount of the social focus in their life. their life oriented around it. and i wonder what we lose when we split our attention, and experience of ritual, into many different communities, spaces, and events
- i just love seeing how your focus and learning has evolved over the past decade casper. <3 and i resonate strongly with your current focus of bridging the traditional and the modern - i find myself playing at the same edge
Thanks David! I really appreciate that :)
Yay Casper!!!!! Love every chance to learn more about how you move in this world. Fantastic interview.
:)) You're the best. Thank you, Elise!
I love everything about this interview. Just to pick one thing at random—I’m moved to see someone male-identified honoring the teaching and lineage of women-identified leaders. I’ve spent a decade being trained in ceremony through a feminine leadership paradigm and it’s hard to convey to people who have only seen leadership through a patriarchal lens just how different it is. I’m making a lot of jumps here, Casper, but I’m curious if you might feel what I mean.
Also, a question: how do you think about ritual vs. ceremony? I apologize if this is covered in your books. I’m new to your work and just starting to read beyond this interview (excited!!). I’ve thought about a lot of similar things within my circles and I would say a ceremony is more one-off, and ritual is something than gains meaning and belonging by being repeated in (almost) the same way over and over. I’m super interested in creating emergent ceremonies to meet this breakdown/breakthrough moment, for I instance. And inspired by the work of Michael Meade here, among others. Ritual is interesting because, as I think you’re getting at here, meaning and belonging can be added to things (like spin class) by doing it repeatedly with a specific intention with others. I 100% agree with the idea that rituals are way more efficient than conversation at building belonging. What about ceremony? I’m guessing yes but would love to hear any nuance you want to add to that.